White Shadow is a beatmaker/DJ from Norway, whom I learnt about during a completely unrelated conversation with a friend on Live Messenger, even though he has been practicing beatmaking for more than 20 years. Searching the interwebs, I ascertained that an interview with him would atone me for all those years of ignorance. So here it is !
You have selected the difficult role of producing beats instead of raping, which is a mass phenomenon. How "unfair" do you think this is for you, considering that in the majority of rap albums, the success is associated with the rapper and not with the producer?
Well, the rapper might be famous, but the labels and producers get the money (laughs)! Nah, for real, it takes the DJ (producer) and the MC, to make a great hip hop record. The MC is usually the front man on stage and the records, and sometimes I think that it may be unfair, because all they have to do is write and rhyme, while producers do everything else; but to write a really great verse can take a lot of effort, hours, days, weeks, so I respect the emcee a lot, but yeah, most of the work is on the producers.
We have to make the music and make sure everything sounds tight, and usually a lot of work is needed after we get the recorded lyrics, for them to sound great. You'd be surprised if you heard some of the unmixed verses, by your favorite emcee's even, because a lot of them need tons of work before they sound good. Of course, I'm not gonna namedrop cause that would be disrespectful (laughs).
I have a lot of love, and respect for every emcee I've worked with, and everyone else with skills too, but sometimes it takes a lot of work to be a producer,and if the end result doesn't make the emcees happy, they'll yell at you and will try to make you change shit too, like they're the producers (laughs)! Most emcees like their vocals LOUD and upfront, and that's cool as long as it doesn't kill the music.
Sometimes I think emcees only listen to themselves on a record, while the producer listens to the overall soundscape, and is more focused on placing everything right within that, but it's a collaborative effort nonetheless. Dope producer and dope emcee on the same page creatively equals dope record.
Dr Dre / Pete Rock / DJ Premier / Rza / Kanye West. Could you rate them, starting from your most favorite?
- Pete Rock
- DJ Premier
- Rza
- Dr. Dre
- Kanye West
A minimal beat can give the rapper the "space" he needs, in order to put his talent in it. Do you believe that a more "difficult" beat will "restrict" the abilities of an MC?
No. If it's a great emcee, he will take a musical beat with a lot of stuff goin' on in it and write the rhymes around it, even makin' the topics of his verses fit with the sounds in the music.
Up until now, what is the genre of music that has offered you the greatest samples for your productions?
All in all, it's been soundtracks and library records. I've milked them all dry, so I've moved on to other things since then, which will remain a secret for now (laughs). Also, usually the wackest records have the dopest samples. There might be just 1 bar that's any good on a whole album, but that 1 bar could be the next super banger!
Have you ever said to yourself, "Damn, that's a beat I wish i had produced", talking about someone else's track?
I dunno, but when I heard that Necro had sampled from a Fulci soundtrack for the first Missin' Linx 12" "Loc'd Down", I knew I wasn't the only one using stuff from Italian Horror soundtracks no more, so it was time to get a move on(laughs)! Sometimes I've thought like "Fuck, they beat me to that sample!", then I've had to flip it or dump it. The Half by High & The Mighty was such a beat, you know with the "Cat People" sample. There was a track on Dr. Dre's Chronic 2001 album as well with a sample that I'd used years before that dropped, and The Hatred by The Snowgoons was another.
Actually, the title track on my album Victory (featuring Craig G and others) used that sample but then I found out, so I had to dump it and make a new beat for that, cause there's no way I'm biting anyone, and especially not my man DJ Illegal (laughs), so that had to be changed! I've been critisized, also, that I took the AOTP "Narrow Grave" sample from a Dutch group called, (I think it was) U-niq, and that AOTP, and myself stole that sample from them which is bs.
I had never heard that record, and my man Villa messed around with that sample for years before I made the Narrow Grave beat -which was actually an extra beat I put on to fill the CD-, that they happened to want. I could probably make a whole album like that with samples others put out before I got to do it, but then again, I got to use a lot first before anyone was onto them as well, like the Profondo Rosso theme, Suspiria, The Beyond, Red Queen Kills 7 Times. I used most of that Horrorstuff first, and I won't rat on who used it after, no (laughs).
The hardest way to make music is using samples and breakbeats. If you combine samples from different records on the same beat and make breaks sound tight and more bangin' than the originals, that is the hardest way to make hip hop music, period.
As for beats, I wish I had made..., no not really. I've always been into doing my own thing, and building my own styles inspired by others, but I never wanted to bite nobody's style, so no. In the early days of me producing (in the late 80's), I admired 45 King a lot. The way he built those beats, I still don't know exactly how he did it. Also Pete Rock, in the early days when he would layer samples like maybe use bits from 5 different breaks to make the drums, then take small parts of various records like, a bassline from one, then a horn sample from another etc, and makin' them all sound like one piece of music. The Bomb Squad and Sir Jinx did that a lot too, and it takes a crazy amount of talent, music knowledge, and time.
Do you think that it is more difficult to produce a smash hit song or a hardcore rap beat and why?
It depends. Like 5 years ago, I guess a hit was easier because all you had to do was bang out a simple but catchy hook on a synth and add 808 drums to it, but now, the markets are so flooded with that stuff that it's not a guaranteed hit anymore. There are probably more artists out there now who try to make hits through a formula, and still fail, than underground hip hop producers. It's really not that easy to tell what will be a hit or not anymore. Also, that has more to do with who's got your back than the (actual) music, meaning, if you have the support of a big label in which you are the number one priority, then you will most likely become a hit, because they got the money and the network to make that happen.
But, musically, the hardest way to make music is using samples and breakbeats. I don't mean like looping a bar straight, putting it on top of a break, and call it a day; if you combine samples from different records on the same beat and make breaks sound tight and more bangin' than the originals, that is the hardest way to make Hip hop music, period.
Who is your favorite MC? More than one option is allowed!
My favorites of all time are Melle Mel, Kool Moe Dee, Rakim, KRS-One and Kool G Rap.
Rumors says that 9th Wonder produces beats through the FL Studio software. How do you find it as a way of making music?
I use Fruityloops too, so I have nothing but love for it. Before that, I used the SP-1200 (and it's a classic) and I love it, you know. But the short memory especially, makes it hard to use to keep up with production nowadays, so I switched to software, a couple of years ago. I have made my best beats after I did that, so I'm not lookin' back. The fact 9th Wonder was using it (and Little Brother's first album sounds like it was made with an SP) and he produced for Jay-Z using Fruityloops, is one of the reasons I decided to say fuck it, let me try that, and see how I like it.
And I love it, so no disrespect to FL, or any good software, or the MPC's, and SP's. As long as they're good to work with, and get the job done smooth and easy, I'm happy.
Give us a picture of your recent album, Destiny. Are you satisfied with the final result and the way people accepted it?
Destiny is my new producer album that was released on Halloween, this year. It has 20 hardcore Hiphop joints on it, featuring 50 emcee's from the US, UK, Canada, Holland, and Sweden, among them Joell Ortiz, KRS-One, Ras Kass, Kool G Rap, ILL Bill, Chief Kamachi, Reef The Lost Cauze, Planet Asia, Block McCloud, Grindhouse Gang, and many more.
None of that R&B singin' hooks, weak synths, or dumbed down lyrics on it. Strictly hard shit, for those of us who appreciate real hip hop, with no commercial interruptions. You can buy it on Itunes, and it's doing great. Nothing but love and props from the fans of hip hop, and well, a little hate too, but that's to be expected because some people will always be jealous when you have a great record out, you know, but fuck them. They can hate and call me names until their face turns green, I don't give a fuck. But mostly love from the B-Boys, and B-Girls, and that's what matters.
Also, I've got a lot of great press on it. It's all over the biggest hip hop sites and radio stations, as well. So far I'm very happy about it, and I think it's my best album by far.
How tiring is it to dig unstoppably for new sounds, in order to produce beats? Was there ever a moment when the time and the cost made you reconsider it?
It can be very tiring because everyone wants the hard bangers, the kind of beats that will rock well on stage and I like to make a lot of laidback, dark, eerie, spacey shit as well which hardly ever gets picked, though; those are my own personal favorites. Everyone wants the bangers and it can be hard to always have those available, because they're flyin' outta here fast all the time, but I'm usually on top of it.
I will sometimes make a beat, especially with the artist who wants it in mind too, but yeah, I've spent years, and a fortune diggin', and still do, and I reconsider it every day my man. Every day I think I might quit tomorrow, then I'm back at it again, and it's all good.
Coming from a country with great tradition in other genres of music, how strange is it for you to make rap, in a place where metal is part of everyday life?
Not strange at all really, but in the early days the hip hop scene here was really small. The other Scandinavian scenes were much bigger so we had something to prove and worked really hard to do so, and that's why there are several producers, especially, who are doin' big things and are from Norway. A very small, but highly competitive and hungry scene of producers are from here.
There are certain links between the black metal, and hip hop scenes here too; for me personally, because I used to trade horror movies with some of those guys back in the days and some were childhood friends from my hometown (who were into hip hop too), so I was close to the early days of that, with all the church burnings and all that craziness. I was close enough to smell the smoke without getting burned, so to speak. There are also links between hip hop, and black metal because both scenes were small, alternative, and agressive, as in ready to go to war for what we believed in. We even did for a minute, which went outta hand, but fortunately died down, but it was all part of the reason why Norwegian hip hop, and black metal became noticed and successful.
Any comments about Vibe Rated?
Thanks for a dope interview! Peace, and respect to all the hip hop heads in Greece, readers of your magazine, and yourself.
Interview by Monkey Barz.
http://www.viberated.com/arthra/synenteukseis/item/904-interview-white-shadow
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